Mac OSX and Java 1.5

by Justin Gehtland

Related link: http://www.intencha.com/adrian/000243.php



It seems that there's a lot of discussion going on about the fact that Apple isn't planning on shipping a 1.5 JDK until Tiger (that's Apple's Tiger, not Java's Tiger) goes gold. I'm seeing a lot of frustration about this, to the point that people are charting and graphing the lag between JDk's on Windows and on the Mac.

(By the way, for those who remember the furor over my Why I am not a platform zealot post a while back, I'm now the proud papa of a brand new PowerBook.)

Here's my question, though, and I'm really interested in other people's thoughts: most folks out there won't be running the 1.5/5.0 JDK for apps anytime soon. Heck, I have a hard enough time trying to get my clients to use 1.4.2 for development. So, I'm not feeling the push from the delivery side to get 1.5 rocking. I am, however, feeling the pull from the research side, and, to do that, I just have OSX Tiger installed on a FireWire drive and use the Java Tiger beta release that exists there to play with it. I'm happy, because I get to keep up with all the new features of Java and I'm playing around in 10.4 to boot.

So, is it that people really are being pushed to ship 1.5 code today, so the lag is a huge drawback? Or that they don't feel comfortable running beta OS's to do their work and/or research? Or that they don't have access to OSX Tiger? For me, it just doesn't seem to be that big a deal, but clearly for a lot of people, it is.

16 Comments

gbevin
2004-10-19 11:08:18
Tiger 1.5 release is outdated and crippled
The problem is that the developer release of JDK 1.5 for MacOSX Tiger is outdated and incompatible with the final release from Sun. The compiler has for instance subtle but important differences in the interpretion of generics. Apart from that, there's no working implementation of AWT or Swing present in it, so for a lot of development it's useless.
ianp
2004-10-19 11:43:02
Learning Curve

I think that you're right in terms of production deployment, most folks will still be with 1.4 for a long time yet. But if you want to use the new features and APIs to learn them, that takes time. One you've done that, allow more time to develop, test, document, and prepare new code for production, and the delay starts to seem significant


For myself, I've recently switched from Linux to a PowerBook, but I think that I'm going to have to get another Linux box to keep current with the Java releases because Apple just doesn't seem capable of (or, more likely, willing to, since Tiger on Tiger will make for a more compelling reason to upgrade your OS) doing it.


Oh, and unless you're actually targetting the Mac specifically as a platform (as opposed, say, to developing on a Mac and targetting Mac/Win/Lin/etc.), $500 per year seems a little excessive just to help Apple beta-test their software!

jgehtland
2004-10-19 14:14:51
Tiger 1.5 release is outdated and crippled
I certainly understand that frustration, but do we know if they (Apple) are planning on releasing more updated versions before the final comes out? My guess would be yes, but I don't have any ins over there. Does anybody know? If so, that really doesn't bother me, as long as it shows steady progress.
zmaniac
2004-10-19 16:33:10
ADC H/W Discount
The special thing about the $500 Tiger DevKit offer is that it buys you a ADC Hardware Discount which is typically around 20%. If you buy a new system with it the savings can easily be more than $500.


Normally the discount is only available on a Select renewal (in which case you pay $500 the first year for a few special support services), but they offer these special deals from time to time.


Jim

Ezz
2004-10-21 10:54:36
Just generally annoyed about Apples java strategy
The problem is not really that Apple waits very long with releasing the new JDK for OS X. I am more annoyed that using Java on OS X is so unflexible. Why can't it be as easy as on Linux, Solaris and Windows where you can install both 1.4.1, 1.4.2 and 1.5 if you want to.


As for wanting to try out the new JDK: Yes I want to be able to do that without having to install a beta OS. And I want to run my java swing applications with the faster Tiger JRE.

etanter
2004-10-25 18:41:28
Tiger 1.5 release is outdated and crippled
Which Tiger beta are you referring to? Has someone tested on the Tiger ADC Developer Preview (7A169)? Any clue whether it ships with 1.5 (I had an older beta that came with 1.4...)? Feedback?
That would be great to know what they are up to by now.
etanter
2004-10-25 18:49:58
Tiger 1.5 release is outdated and crippled
sorry I meant 8A269...
kentmiller@cox.net
2004-11-09 11:10:43
Apache Beehive & Eclipse Pollinate
Both the Beehive framework and the Pollinate IDE require Java 1.5, because of the code annotations used.


I realize that this is a very specific case, but it's not a research issue - we really do plan to develop web apps using Beehive.

tegripa
2004-12-15 04:02:44
java 1.5 for mac os
Hi I am really interested on the java 5 for mac os. Can you give me links for sources from where I can get more info for the quesion?


Thanks

ncmathsadist
2005-01-09 14:45:10
lack of 1.5
Today, I discover to my horror, that there is no 1.5 for the Mac. That means my mac at home will not recognize the Java Applet I am testing on a LIINUX-based site at work.


Mr. Jobs, you have a scandalous situation requiring IMMEDIATE repair! I don't need to remind you that you should be keeping your technoweenie mac users happy!

david87656
2005-01-16 23:32:30
From a Non-Apple User (not yet)
As a Java developer I would love to do my work on an apple. The huge lap between Sun's release and Apple's release means I can't really seriously consider Apple.


My point to Apple would be: There are alot of developers out there who do Java work and they are excluded from using Apple. It's a huge mistage to ignore them.

FirstClown
2005-03-23 16:41:52
Can't use Game Gardens
Here's a reason we need Java 5, you can't use the cool new Game Gardens framework.


http://www.gamegardens.com/gardens/browse.wm

MSeddon
2005-04-04 09:54:17
Apple is letting the Java platform down.
Unfortunately, JDK 1.5 really is the turning point for me as a developer, the addition of generics, iterator expressions, and the overall performance improvements in 1.5 has finally made Java a very attractive desktop platform.. uh oh, until I realise that Apple are lagging. Again. When everyone else was on 1.2, they were on 1.1, and let's be honest, have stayed behind a major version each time. This bit us in the behind in 2000 when all we had was Apple's 1.1 JDK, and a broken Swing implementation. I would be less irritated if they didn't tout their support for Java quite so loudly and then fail to deliver the goods. Come on guys, history is repeating itself over and over, you are making yourself look foolish.
busynilesh
2005-04-27 12:39:35
Apple is letting the Java platform down.
I realized how important java 1.5 is for me... I cannot use Netbeans 4 for creating a GUI..
Mr. Jobs need to address concerns of developers.
neilberkman
2005-04-29 19:42:55
where to download J2SE 5.0?
Seems that JDK 1.5 is not actually included in Tiger. Can anyone point me to where to download it (a link would be ideal)? The FAQ says that it's "available for manual download". I signed up for a free ADC account, but didn't see it in the Java download section.


http://developer.apple.com/java/faq/


"J2SE 5.0 Release 1 for Mac OS X Tiger is now available via manual download, based on J2SE 5.0 Update 2 (JDK version 1.5.0_02). Mac OS X Tiger also includes JDK versions 1.4.2_07 and 1.3.1_15."

wimvds
2005-05-02 02:51:49
where to download J2SE 5.0?
You can download the release 1 from
http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/java2se50release1.html