On Closures, Persistence, Web Browsers, and Yet Another Microsoft Innovation (That's Seven + Years Old) That Will Eventually Be Implemented By Everyone Else

by M. David Peterson

Update: [May 26th, 2006 @ 15:06 MDT] The Phantom is back, and back with vengeance (or maybe just a link that you should really check out in regards to this same subject matter.)

Gracias, Phantom. :)

Update: [May 25th, 2006 @ 16:34 MDT] And just like that, *POOF*, via a phantom commenter we discover a source of documentation in regards to Mozilla's Storage API, which is kind of what I was hinting at when I mentioned code diving. However, as the above linked document points out,


2006-05-25 12:26:53
Derek worked for Dr. Steven Newcomb's TechnoTeacher company prior to joining Microsoft. TechnoTeacher's HyMinder engine was a robust implementation of ISO 10744 - Hytime. He briefly assisted with the US Navy MID project (a so-called notional browser language developed as a project managed out of the David Taylor Model Basin - Carderock) while in the employ of TechnoTeacher.

That's first hand because I was the original contractor team leader for that project while working on IDEAS/IADS at Unisys/Paramax/Lockheed Martin. Neill Kipp (also from TechnoTeacher) and I authored the first versions of what became MID I. The MID (Metafile for Interactive Documents) precedes both XUL and XAML as a markup-based GUI.

M. David Peterson
2006-05-25 12:59:18
Wow! Very cool, Len!

I need to spend some research time on this, as this kind of info is the kind of thing that will help me gain both a greater understanding of how to properly develop bullet-proof code (which obviously starts with the proper development of the design document which is preceded first by the proper development of "why do we need this in the first place" use case document :)) as well as appreciation for how much history there is in any given technology, and therefore credit that needs to be directed towards a group of folks who would otherwise not get credit for their work out of simple ignorance on the part of folks like me who simply didn't realize this to be the case.

Of course I can easily search for the provided information, but if you happen to know of some of the better locations in which I can learn more about this, I would REALLY appreciate the extended information (as I'm sure others would as well :))!

This sounds like something that would be well suited as a Wiki-based community research project. What do you think?

2006-05-25 14:46:48
Mozilla local storage docs (no...not in the current version):


2006-05-26 06:13:03
The problem, David, is that an accurate history is often at odds with the current pop mythology. There is a long history of people who are important to the technologies that became The Web. But when there is a speeding truck load of money or powerful interests that need things to happen unnoticed, that history is sacrificed.

If you use the PageRank algorithm, you get the 'designated winners' just as all pop phenomena eliminates much quality for the 'new and different' without regard to it being so. I say again, keep it in mind that the same technology that brought you a world of free information and plunging prices for it took your privacy and is turning the US into a police state. Why? Money. Only money.

So don't be too surprised if over time some of the mythical heroes are recast as villains, some of the current villains are recast as simpering boobs, and people who's contributions were small but seminal simply vanish from the story. That is history, a story of many losses for one big moment of progress in which only the moment is remembered and everything else is made irrelevant. When people tell you that the web is unpredictable, they are telling you that their data and their desire are both shallow.

Get used to it.

M. David Peterson
2006-05-26 07:14:27
> Get used to it. <


Thanks Len... I needed to hear/read this. :) I often find myself in a state of aggravation because the world that I both see and have seen differs from that of others. It often feels as if this difference is because people refuse to accept the fact that the way they view the world could be flawed in any way, but with a slight tinge of political justification for maneuvering into a particular position.

Of course, just when I feel like I am convinced this is absolutely the case, I discover that the other side of the coin seems to have flipped itself to the opposite side while I wasn't looking, making claims of having always been in that position from the start, even though I was near to certain this wssn't the case.

When that happens, and I turn to the other side to see if, in fact, I was wrong about my original concern with the previous entity, they've not just reversed positions, but completely vanished without a trace.

I often wonder if God laughs outloud when he sends lifes lessons my direction.

"Look, Look, he's falling for it again.... BWahahah hahaha haha..."

Ahh... can't blame Him, really... I find myself laughing at myself too.

Ever tried to watch yourself from the outside... Not an easy task, and when it works, its usually for about half a second until I realize... "Okay, your phreaking me out!" which is not a good thing as it seems that everywhere I try to run, I seem to be able to follow myself at a pretty consistant pace. ;)

Some people believe that when a dog chases his own tail, its because he doesn't realize that its his tail he chasing in the first place.

I disagree... It seems to me he's simply showcasing that when all else fails, there's still plenty of ways to make life both interesting, enjoyable, breathtaking, while providing plenty of things to laugh about while you pant your way to the water bowl while thinking...

"You know, I wonder if this is really as good as it gets?"

"Hmm... well, either way... thats fine by me... Ruff!" ;)

2006-05-26 12:44:05
My "phantom" comment was so popular I thought I'd add another. Remember Java and Livescript? Just add a java db and poof!...client side persistence:


M. David Peterson
2006-05-26 12:59:21
I like your sense of humor! :D

Thanks for the link... I'll check it out now :)

M. David Peterson
2006-05-26 13:06:06
Very cool!

>> The local AJAX controller and storage services are implemented as a thin and invisible applet, which itself is packaged as a Java extension (by choice). The advantage of this, is that I can install the Java Plug-in on every known web browsers out there and then the required client services will be installed on-demand automatically via the Java plug-in (or Java webstart). As Simon puts it, this could lead to the revive of the applet on the client side, but this time with no GUI involved, just a transparent and lightweight client service interface. <<

You know, I wonder if the reason the Java applet never really took off is because is was too focused (from the mind of the developer obviously... not the technology itself) on the GUI? Thats a REALLY interesting perspective...

Something to be think about, and watch the progress of for sure!

I will avoid extensive addition of commentary, but this certainly deserves to pulled out and pointed to at the top of this post to ensure people know to check this out.

Thanks again for all of your links! I truly and sincerely appreciate it, and I'm confident othes do as well. :)

2007-04-15 00:01:02
Interesting comments.. :D